natural treatment for the disease ulcer disease

meredith:welcome to cellular healing tv, episode115. i’m your host, meredith dykstra, and we have dr. pompa here on the line, of course,and today we have a very special guest, dr. joseph mercola. we’re very, very excitedto have him on cellular healing tv. let me read you a little bit about dr. mercola beforewe get started. dr. mercola is a board certified and familypractice and has treated tens and thousands of patients before shifting full time to runninghis website, mercola.com, which is the most visited site in the world.dr. mercola:no, most visited and natural health site. the most visited site in the world isgoogle! meredith:most visited natural health sitein the world. all right; we’ve got that.

his current passion is using diet to optimizemitochondrial dysfunction, which is actually the topic of today’s show. we are so happyto have you, dr. mercola and dr. pompa, of course. we’re going to talk about mitochondriatoday. let’s jump in and get started. dr. pompa:listen, i love this topic and joe,we got on this topic, and you could barely pull us out during the last several showswhere this mitochondria thing keeps coming up, and i even interviewed bruce lipton.dr. mercola:oh, that’s great. i haven’t talked to bruce in a long time.dr. pompa:we had a great conversation, and of course, the mitochondria comes up in everyconversation that we do, even when thomas seyfried, who we both know. in that show,we were talking about damage to the mitochondria

and how it’s leading to not just cancerin his opinion, but many other diseases – all the unexplainable ones – fibromyalgia, chronicfatigue, people that can’t sleep, people that can’t lose weight – you name it,i believe the mitochondria is at the heart of most conditions.you believe the same thing, so i love some of this new information you’re talking about;what’s going on with certain fats in the mitochondria. you’re going to talk aboutthat today, and you better talk about the dexcom that you’re wearing right now thatmeasures glucose all day. joe, we had a very fascinating conversation about the mitochondriacell energy in relation to all these diseases, and i want to just pull you right into itand launch it. why is the mitochondria under

such attack today, and how is it leading toso many conditions? dr. mercola:it’s primarily because of ourlifestyle where we’re exposed to so many items, primarily in our diet, that increasesinflammatory responses and increases reactive oxygen species, which secondarily cause freeradical damage and disseminate mitochondrial cell membranes and mitochondrial dna, whichis the whole issue. the primary way is your diet.most everyone is consuming food, not your viewers because they are educated and understandthis, but many elite athletes do. that’s the hidden trick, especially endurance athletes;they are understanding that up-regulating the enzymes burn fat as fuel is really thekey to success in their endeavors athletically.

that’s the key – really burn a fuel that’sclean and not going to generate these excessive reactive oxygen species, which is going todamage your mitochondria. you are right. mitochondria is at the core, i believe, of most everything.interestingly, there’s probably a small segment of your readers who don’t understandor believe this. i would recommend – i don’t know if you’ve done this already, becausewe’ve talked about it, but let me know – watching a movie called the faults in our stars. ifyou haven’t watched this movie, you’ve got to watch this movie.dr. pompa:i’m going to watch it. it’s on my list.dr. mercola:the only caution is that you have to watch it with a box of kleenex. it wasthis movie and travis christofferson’s book,

tripping over the truth, the metabolic theoryof cancer, which i think is far better for the average reader than thomas avery’s books.thomas avery’s books are almost for researchers, you know? it’s good, but it’s really toodeep. having read his book and watching the faultin our stars, which was the most emotionally impacting movie i’ve ever seen in my life– it is literally my favorite movie of all time – was what catalyzed my reawakeningand passion in this area and knowing that i had colonels of the truth for a long time,thanks to ron rosedale, who is my personal mentor – he’s a physician, and many ofyour readers know who he is – but i hadn’t really fully embraced it, and i just had theepiphany; the lights went off and i just have

been nothing but unbelievably passionate aboutthis topic ever since, because i know it’s the core, the key, that’s going to rescuethe vast majority of people from devastating health outcomes.dr. pompa:i have something called my 5r’s of cellular healing and how to fix the cell.it became a roadmap for what i’m teaching doctors. if you don’t fix the cell, you’renot going to get people well. r3 is restoring cellular energy, so my passion into the mitochondria– many of our viewers are doctors and most are just the general person looking to regaintheir health or get better health. they perhaps don’t’ understand what the mitochondriadoes, so as a reminder, this is where we produce every bit of energy, cellular energy, eitherin the form of glucose, sugar, or fat. most

people today in all of the conversations reallyare broken, dr. joe, as far as their mitochondria’s ability to use fat. even when we’re puttingpeople in ketotic states, which should force the cell to only burn fat, they still havedifficulty. what is the process? what’s going on? you’vefound a lot of things dietary that could be interfering with this. share some of yourfindings with us in this area. dr. mercola:there are many environmental exposuresand lifestyle choices that will cause mitochondrial damage, but the primary one, at least i believe,and i could be incorrect because i have only been delving into this for the last six months,but i’ve read a lot of studies on this, so i’ve developed a fair level of expertise.it’s my impression that the primary issue

is the food that people are choosing to eat,which causes these inflammatory conditions, but when you have those food choices in conjunctionwith exposure to toxins in the environment, lack of sleep, improper exercise, emf exposures,food allergies – there’s a whole variety of other variables that synergize to makethat food choice much worse. if you can get the food choice right, it’sgoing to make all the other problems better because it’s going to be easier to treat,because you’ve got the fuel that you’re burning efficiently and you’re not generatingthese excessive reactive oxygen species. it’s all about making sure that you minimize thosenet carbs, which is the total carbs minus the fiber and have the highest percentageof high-quality fat you can. typically, 80-85%

fat and then really minimizing your net carbs,under 30-40 grams, and your protein to 1 gram per kilogram of lean body mass, which forguys like you and me is under 70 grams, and maybe if you’re smaller, 60 grams; and ifyou’re a woman, it might be 40 grams or 30 grams. that’s not a lot of protein; itreally isn’t, but it’s more than your body needs – it really is.dr. pompa:yeah, no doubt – those are my protein recommendations as well. for peoplethat don’t know kilograms, you’re safe at about half your body weight.dr. mercola:you’ve got to convert to lean body mass, and a lot of your readers are lean.we’re probably 10% fat, or less, but if you’re 20% fat, then it’s a differentnumber.

dr. pompa:absolutely yeah; obviously for someonewho is 300 pounds and obese would not want to eat half their body – yeah, that’sfor a lean person for sure. the increase in protein, we know can damage that mitochondrialmembrane. i think that’s a big misnomer that people have.dr. mercola:remind me to send – my mentor, as i mentioned earlier, is ron rosedale, andhe recently presented at the low-carb conference in veil, i think in february, and his videoof that presentation, which is spectacular and probably the best video presentation everseen or given, is a magnificent understanding of this where he really expounds on mtor,because hardly anyone understands mtor, and the reason we’re making these protein recommendationsis because of its effect on mtor, and mtor

is probably even more important than insulinand leptin, which hardly anyone understands. it is the most profoundly, important signalingpathway when it comes to health. dr. pompa:i have two major questions. firstof all, what is the life in joe’s life look like, meaning that – i know – i’ve beenon the phone with you, and you’re walking the beach and you’re doing steps every day,so i know you’re exercising. you can tell them, but diet wise, what’s it look like,joe? you gave those recommendations, very similar to what meredith and i do exactly,but tell us what it looks like. dr. mercola:i moved to florida, but i’ma chicago native, and that is not a healthy place to live in no way, shape, or form. whenyou live there, you don’t realize it, so

fortunately i met a woman in my life who reallywas magnificent and we had been going out together for seven years, and she convincedme to move down to florida, although i convinced her to move to illinois, which was a mistake.she wisely moved back and i then i followed her and have been down here for four years.i live really close to the beach, literally two to three minutes away, and i ride my bikeevery day there – most every day – 95% of the time, and walk for an hour to two hoursa day. in that time, i’m able to read and have phone calls, so i multitask, becausenot many people would have the luxury of taking two hours a day and just walking, at leastnot a busy professional. i’m able to justify it from that perspective. it’s just beenthe most magnificent transformation, just

doing that activity.with respect to your other question about the diet – i’m writing a book on this– i’m not sure what the title of the book will be, but i hope to sell at least 10 millioncopies and maybe 100 million at some point. i really believe that the information we’retalking about today is going to literally transform the entire healthcare system, becauseonce people understand this and apply it – the devil is in the details – correctly, theirwhole life is going to change. it’s going to be transformational.what i think an important part of that process that i’ll describe in the book and brieflymention here is intermittent fasting. we are going to re-call it “peak fasting,” becausethere’s a lot of different ways you can

intermittent fast – five days on, two daysoff, every other day, water fast, and a whole variety of things – but our fast – thisis one of the reasons i’ve got the dexcom, which is a 24-hour, continuous glucose monitoringsystem where you inset a sensor underneath your skin for a week and change the sensorevery week. that’s why i got it. i’m going to convince you to get one too, because it’sjust magnificent. you can get so much data information.dr. pompa:our fingers are sore from all the pricking.dr. mercola:i’ll cut down your finger pricks dramatically. i’m only having to prick myfingers two to four times a day. a lot of times you have to do double sticks becauseyou have to. when you have the dexcom sensor,

it will measure 24/7, but you have to calibrateit twice a day, so you’re still doing at least two sticks a day, and sometimes thatcalibration stick is off – it’s so far away from what your sensor is showing thatyou have to do it again, and you say, “oh yeah, it was wrong.â€â  you know those glucosesticks give you false readings sometimes. dr. pompa:what dr. joe is saying is he hasa device that is implanted that measures his glucose at least 120 times a day, correct?dr. mercola:well, that’s the most that it could. when you change your sensor, it goesoff line for two hours and then if you’re receiving device – this is my receivingdevice – you can press this number here and it will show you what your glucose, andin my case – i don’t know if that shows

on the screen – oops, that’s upside down,so that’s why it won’t show. dr. pompa:there it is; it’s 87.dr. mercola:that’s a little high. i’m not sure exactly why, but typically it’sin the low 80s, and at night, i’ve seen it go as low as 40 at night, which is usually2 o’clock in the morning. who’s going to get up at 2 o’clock in the morning tomeasure their glucose? you shouldn’t do that. you should be shot, but you know exactlywhere it is. i’ve noticed that my lowest point is typically about 1 to 2 o’clockin the morning then it gradually rises as you get close to waking up because your cortisolis rising. dr. pompa:that is really cool.dr. mercola:it’s just so great to tap into

your biology at this level.dr. pompa:it is; it is, right? it’s fun. one of the things i love to do – you getthat morning glucose and ketones and i get so much information about my clientele, becauseas they’re intermittent fasting through the day without eating, we should see theglucose drop and the ketones rise. you’re able to see everything you do.a lot of people get very confused. they see their glucose rising after exercise, but that’snormal. you are able to see – dr. mercola:a little bit, but it shouldn’trise that much. in my experience, it’s maybe 10 at the most, 10 milligram’s.â  then itcomes right down. the intermittent fasting i was referring to, we renamed it peak fastingbecause we have redefined intermittent fasting.

it’s fasting for at least 12 hours, ideally3 hours before you go to bed, because the last thing you want to do is eat a lot offuel and put it onboard your body when you don’t need it, because you’re going togenerate excessive reactive species. you do not want to fuel your body when you don’tneed it. the time you need it least is when you’re sleeping. that’s when you’remetabolically most inert or least active. you wait at least 12 or 13 hours and thenextend it to about 18 hours, but how do you know if you’re going to stop your fast at13 hours, 14, 15, 16, or 17 hours? how do you know? when do you start eating is thequestion, right? i think i figured it out, and i figured this out myself, and maybe otherpeople did too, but i certainly hadn’t read

it or no one told me, so i spontaneously identifiedthis process, and basically, it’s serially measuring your glucose. you’re glucose tendsto rise about 4 or 5 o’clock in the morning and comes up a little bit, maybe 10 or 15points, but then it will stabilize. in my case, it typically stabilizes in the high70’s or low 80’s. then, all of a sudden, within about half an hour, it will start torise dramatically. it’ll go up 10 or 15 points.dr. pompa:after you’re awake, you’re saying? dr. mercola:oh, yeah, and typically it’sabout 14 to 15 hours after is my personal frame right now. now that i’ve got my meter,i just check it. i look and see, “okay, as soon as it starts going up, i’m checking– there it is – okay, it’s time to eat.”

interestingly, when you start to eat – youwould think when you’re eating food that your blood sugar should rise, right?dr. pompa:yeah, right. dr. mercola:no, it goes down. it literallygoes down, because what happens is, is your stopping the catabolic process, i believe.i’ve got to talk to steven finney, who i think is –dr. pompa:yeah, we know him. dr. mercola:give me his contact information,please, because he seems to be the brightest guy – he’s certainly been doing this fordecades – the guy is really bright. i know he works with vogle, but i think he understandsthe biochemistry and the physiology a little better. i’ve talked to jeff before, buti need to talk to steven. this whole issue

of gluconeogenesis, and when you have gluconeogenesisversus – you can get the sub-straight either from glycerol, which is a breakdown productof triglycerides or you can get it from protein and amino acids. i think, my guess, is thatit’s coming from amino acids, which would be deleterious and counterproductive to fastthat long. i don’t believe in these long-term fasts.dr. pompa:let me ask you this question. if you get in to 14 or 15 – it’s going tobe a little bit different for everybody, because i can even tell, but how do we figure thatout? that’s the thing. dr. mercola:you can stick yourself every 10minutes if you want, which is a little cumbersome, and actually for those – i think a highpercentage of your viewers are doing this

– i found – i made the assumption thatthe accu-screen, one precision, one step – what is it? the one that people – accu-chek – isthat it? dr. pompa:yeah, accu-chek is the one.dr. mercola:precision – it’s precision that checks the ketones, so that’s the onei have, because everyone is suggesting it, but then i went on amazon and got these greatreviews and found – hey, you can get the bayer contour – not the contour next, althoughit’s the same price – but the bayer contour, which i found to be a bit more accurate, for$7.00. that’s what the meter costs. the strips are $0.25, so that’s about half theprice of the other version, so you feel a little less financially restricted to measureyour glucose a little more when it only costs

$0.25.dr. pompa:that’s glucose – does it do ketones?dr. mercola:no, it doesn’t do ketones, but you can do the ketonix, right? the ketonix,which is a great device – i started using this and then i stopped. i didn’t realizeyou can quantitate the color level, so it’s pretty darn accurate. once you calibrate,there’s very little benefit of sticking yourself for ketones, and this thing costs$125.00, but after you pay that, that’s it. you’ve can test your ketones the restof your life for no charge, and it’s so easy. here’s the other thing i did to quantifyit, because it measures the acetone in your breath, which is one of the ketones, but ifyou blow longer, you’ll give it more acetone,

so you have to calibrate it. i’ve foundfor myself that 20 seconds of a slow, easy outbreath is what is required. i have thistimer, and i always stop at 20 seconds, so it’s consistent. i’m not doing 15 secondsone time and 25 seconds the next, which is going to mess the results up.dr. pompa:i go to exhaustion every time. dr. mercola:no, i think you’re going tobe a falsely high reading. that’s not what they recommend. i need to probably talk tothe guy who invented it, but they say just do it comfortably. you can play with it. justmeasure it. measure 20 seconds; measure 30 seconds, but i think going to exhaustion – itprobably gives you consistent, but i think you’re going to get a falsely elevated level;that would be my guess.

dr. pompa:you’d have more acetone.dr. mercola:more acetone, right. dr. pompa:yours is around 14 or 15 hours,so you started to start eating again. now, here’s one of the things:â  people becomemore efficient, joe, so in other words, after a period of time, oftentimes people can’tgo a little bit, so we look at their glucose, because i was doing the same thing. if i startseeing things change where their ketones are dropping and the glucose is rising, that’stypically the time to eat; however, as they get more efficient, what they weren’t ableto do now they are able to do. now they are able to go 18 hours and everything is good.do you see that change in you – that you’re getting – ?dr. mercola:i haven’t seen it, but that

is an issue. ron rosedale is really concerned.dominic d’agostino is probably the leading researcher in this area. i have enormous respectfor him, but his focus is largely on ketones as result of the way he has transitioned tothis field. the ketones are important. they definitely provide some magic, but it’snot the ketones themselves, it’s your body’s ability to up-regulate the fat-burning enzymesthat create the ketones that’s really the pure magic. ideally, you can take exogenousketones, but you want to make the ketones yourself.dr. pompa:i actually asked dominic that. dr. mercola:i want a dialogue with him too,because i’m not sure – i think – i just want to download his brain, because he’sgot so much information. the guy is a literal

encyclopedia in this area. i don’t knowanyone who has a more broad-based, comprehensive biological and biochemical understanding ofwhat’s going on in mitochondrial health. he’s it from my perspective.dr. pompa:yeah, one of the things i was concerned about was taking exogenous ketones. we canliterally take the orally as opposed to breaking your own fat down and making them. my concernwas to him was if we’re taking them, are we going to shut down fat metabolism – ourbody’s ability to burn fat and make its own. he did say, meredith, yes, to a pointthat could happen by taking too many exogenous ketones. he wasn’t sure at what point itwould shut it down though. dr. mercola:you can make it through coconutoil; that will help somewhat, but then you

can do mct oil, which is a lot simpler, easier,and less expensive than using the ketone esters or the ketone mineral salts. mct has two versions.one is a regular mct and the other is the mct that is primarily caprylic acid or c8.regular mct is a mixture of c8 and c10, and the short of change the fast the more rapidlythey’ll convert to ketones. it’s interesting, not only mct but even coconut oil, becausemedium change triglycerides, the shorter chains of the fats don’t require l-carnitine asa transfer molecule to get those fats to be burned in the mitochondria.dr. pompa:one of your findings – you were finding because you experiment so much ofthis stuff, but taking these short-chain fatty acids such as coconut oil or mct oil withcertain omega-6 fats, or polyunsaturates,

was an issue. talk about that, because thatwould damage the mitochondrial membrane. dr. mercola:ron rosedale came up with this,and this is just a simple understanding of basic physiology, in that when you are burningfuel, your body is going to preferentially burn the shorter chains first when you eatfat, so if you’re taking mct and a long-chain polyunsaturate like seeds, flax seed, or evenfish oil, you’re going to burn those fats first and then you will tend to integratethose other fats into your cell membranes because you’re not burning them for fuel;they’re hanging around longer in the body and the cells are going to integrate them.typically omega-6 – if you read the new science on this, there’s a lot of concernabout taking – there’s been a lot of concern

about excessive omega-6 for a long time becauseof the refined vegetables, but even healthy omega-6 from organic fresh seeds and nutsand taken that way; if you have too much of that, it has this omega-3 called – i saidomega-6, but there are omega-3s in there too, which is ala – but no, actually it’s thealpha – there’s alpha-linolenic acid in it and alpha-linoleic acid – but both ofthem could be problematic. they get integrated and when you have too much in the mitochondrialcell membranes, it makes it more oxidized and more susceptible to damage. that causeslots of problems, so if you take the omega-6 by themselves without these short-chain fats,then your body is more likely to burn them as fuel than to integrate them into the mitochondrialcell membranes.

dr. pompa:basically what you’re saying isif you’re eating a bunch of nuts and seeds with coconut oil, that’s a bad idea.dr. mercola:well, not necessarily; if could be a bad idea. you have to look at the wholepicture. nuts are less problematic than – the nuts i recommend are macadamias and pecansbecause they don’t have a lot of omega-6; they are higher in monounsaturate – typicallyoleic acid. i think oleic acid is a shorter chain, so that will tend to burn before theomega-6. i think it’s a c-12, but i could be wrong on that. it might be c-12.you have to be careful, but as an artifact of that, maybe now is the appropriate timeto go on what i’ve just discovered literally two days ago. this is fresh off the mind becauseit’s not even written down yet.

dr. pompa:that’s great man. first here oncell tv. dr. mercola:yeah, it’s great stuff. we allknow that you’re going to really sabotage your ability to burn fat and keep low glucose,which is an indirect reflection of low insulin, low igf-1, and low lepton. the reason i lovethe dexcom is because it gives you the blood sugar level. ideally it would be nice to haveblood insulin, but that technology does not exist.what i noticed – my carbs, my net carb intake is typically under 50 and many times it’sunder 30 grams a day. that’s not a lot of carbs. the last time i measured my insulinlevel it was 0.2, so i have incredible insulin sensitivity. what i notice when i take a pieceof fruit – you should be able to have some

healthy fruit. i think dominic agrees, andeverything i’ve seen and read on this, believes that some fruit in moderation is reasonable,so i said, “okay, let’s have some fruit,” i take a fruit, which i did about half a dozentimes, either before or after exercise, my blood sugar jumps from 80 to over 100 andstays there for 6 hours. i was just so frustrated. i just did a test. i took 35 grams of mulberries– i’ve got a magnificent place where i live and i have a regenerative agricultureexperiment; i put in 500,000 pounds of woodchips and am creating magnificent soil with justliterally tons of earthworms and creating an environment where i have 60 fruit treesthat generate thousands of pounds of fruit a year. i’d like to access some of them,because they really taste good and it’s

all organic.i had some mulberries; it’s the first fruit coming out this season, and i had 30 grams,an ounce of mulberries, which is like blueberries; it’s relatively low in net carbs. i havethem and i usually go for that walk i mentioned – 1 or 2 hours – i think this was sundaywhen i went for a 2-hour walk – maybe it was 2-⽠hours – and i started half an hourafter the walk, so my metabolism was revved up. i took it and rather than my blood sugarrising 20-25 points and staying there for 6 hours, it rose 10 or maybe 7, stayed therefor an hour, and then dropped below when i had the fruit. it was unbelievable.i said, “i’ve got to test this again,” so this morning i did 70 grams of mulberries,and it went down even lower. it didn’t budge

it. it didn’t budge it.dr. pompa:why don’t you test it with different types of exercise? higher intensity, becauseclearly it’s gluconeogenesis. dr. mercola:i don’t think so, but i’vetested it when i work out at the gym. i do my strength training and things. i testedfruit before or after and every time it ruins my blood sugar. it just ruins it. it decimatesit. i don’t know how or why. i talked to ron rosedale about it, and he’s convincedit’s true. from his understand of physiology, if you want to eat fruit – i just told myfather this this morning. i called him. he’s 89 years old and a type 1 diabetic, but he’sreally well controlled. he keeps his blood sugars around 80. to eat the fruit duringexercise, that is the time to eat your fruit

– not before and not after, but during andpreferentially towards the beginning of the exercise – ⼠of the way through.dr. pompa:you might be answering one of my big questions that i have. with all thesestudies that show that exercise fasting is key; it raises glucose. the question thatnobody can answer and that i get all types of conflicting information from studies is,when do you eat? when do you eat? during or after, and like you, i measure my glucosetrying to figure that out. afterwards, i ate right away; measured my glucose, and got aresponse. not one time have i tried to eat during, and of course, something like fruitwouldn’t be the only thing you could eat. dr. mercola:fruit is a really high glycemicload. that’s the issue. i think normally

when you and i eat, we’re eating 85% fator 80% fat. that’s great because your body is revved up and knows how to use those andburn those as fuel. in my experience, it doesn’t really matter when you’re eating that muchfat. you can eat before, after, or during; it doesn’t really raise my blood sugar much.we’re talking only a few points. my average blood sugar throughout the entireday is 78. that’s what it averages. i want to see what yours is.dr. pompa:that’s why you want me to get a dexcom.dr. mercola:do you know ben greenfield? i’m sure you know, ben, right?dr. pompa:yeah, we’ve interviewed ben. dr. mercola:i’ve convinced him. he’s pickingone up next week, so you guys are going to

be in a race. i convinced him to do it too.he’s a really good, lead athlete, so it generates some interesting data. i think he’sgoing to find the same thing. i want him to try the fruit thing and you can try it andthen we’ll see. we’ll have a trial of three people, because i’m right now withan n of 1; we need an n of 3 with people who are clearly fed adapted. i don’t know, buti suspect that this would work in people who aren’t fed adapted, because it’s the samephysiology, but it may not work as well or it may not work at all. we don’t know. thereare not many people using this dexcom who aren’t type 1 diabetic. there are very fewof us who are pushing the envelope, but i heard tim ferris is and maybe peter atia istoo. i don’t know that for sure.

dr. pompa:for folks watching, the dexcom isused for diabetics. dr. mercola:type 1 – it’s not cheap. thecheapest you can get it is $3,000 for one year. a better version is about $4,500 becauseit has a less dangerous form of wireless communication between the sensor embedded in your body andthe receiver. dr. pompa:you have to be willing to embedthe sensor. that’s where pompa backed off. dr. mercola:i can walk you through it. itdoesn’t hurt. meredith:do have any concerns with emf withthe sensor? dr. mercola:yes, that’s why i said the lessexpensive one is called the g4. the g4 uses radiofrequency to communicate and that’sthe older generation; the new one is a g5

and it uses low-power blue tooth, which probably95% less power and the concern about emf is directly related to the power in there. it’svirtually a nonissue from my perspective, but it is a concern. i wouldn’t do thisthe rest of my life. there is a small window. when you have a very healthy lifestyle, youcan take these minor hits and survive easily; in fact, it might be even something that improvesyour health because there is this process called hormesis, where you have small dosesof the challenge that actually make you healthier, and exercise is a great example of that, asare many of the supplements we take. dr. pompa:i think the data is really helpful,because like you, i have all of my clients and doctors testing glucose testing glucoseand ketones and to be able to look at what’s

happening – because we know that – weknow that people do get more efficient at the mitochondria and burning fat for energyand being able to see those numbers is how we know, how long and intermittent fast shouldbe, how long we can push them; otherwise, you are right. we’re not getting the benefitthat we’re looking at. i think the information you’re getting from that is going to bevaluable for all of us, and even the exercise conundrum that i’ve had. when do you eat?we know that exercise while fasting is great, but when do you eat?dr. mercola:i’m not concerned about that. i think my view is i’m a friend of peakfasting, and that’s what we’re renaming it because it really refers to a very preciseform of fasting that i just described. when

you’re peak fasting, i think that’s goingto provide all the benefit you need with respect to increasing mitochondrial autophagy or mitophagyand mitochondrial biogenesis. i don’t know that there are massive additional benefitsto do that exercise when you’re in a fasting state or it may even be counterproductiveif you exceeded the ideal threshold for the time of fast that you need to be engaged in.dr. pompa:i’ve been reading the studies on the growth hormone spike and the testosteronespike that you get from that exercise fasting, so it’s an adaptation.dr. mercola:yeah, but those spikes may not be healthy. they may be good for a catabolicresponse in building muscles, but is that – there are two approaches. one is to improvethe way your exercise and athletic performance

and the other is to improve longevity. theytend to be mutually exclusive. they aren’t always the same.dr. pompa:absolutely. a lot of the body builders now are doing intermittent fasting.dr. mercola:they know it works. dr. pompa:they realize that the old days ofeating five or six meals a day are gone. dr. mercola:that’s another interesting component.let me share this with you too, because i do think you need to eat five or six mealsa day. let me tell you why. dominic only eats two and i disagree with that. i can’t waitto engage him in dialogue with him about that. i think ideally – i’ve .shown it in myself– you want to have six small meals a day rather than two big ones. why, especiallyif you have renal dysfunction? it’s too

much of a protein load. you want to give yourbody a gradual sip of fuel throughout the day rather than just assault it with theselarge things. it’s definitely going to be more toxic to your kidneys. there’s no questionabout it. if you throw that much nitrogen at it – i don’t think you should havemore than 10 or 12 grams of protein or maybe 15 grams of protein at one meal. anythingmore than that – you are potentially damaging your kidney.dr. pompa:you are talking about once you start eating, because a lot of people develop ulcers.when i went to africa, for example, they ate meat all day. they would go out and hunt anddo different things. now, once they start eating, then they eat. you’re saying eatthose meals, once you start eating, eat many

times during that time.dr. mercola:right, still do the peak fasting for 13-18 hours where you’re not eating,but have those six meals spread out in that eating window. that doesn’t mean makingmore meals necessarily; make you meal but split it in half and have one now and haveone later. i’ve misgauged the time of this. i was going to have my lunch – this is mylunch – you can see it’s got peppers in there, anchovies, and some bacon and eggs,and it’s really delicious. i was going to have that 30 minutes ago, but it’s no bigdeal. i’ll have it a little later when we finish the interview. i made it. i’ll havehalf now and half later. i make my breakfast smoothie, which i never really ask for whati eat, so i have the breakfast smoothie, which

i’ll tell you in a moment, and i call itthe fat bomb, which i got from dominic. when i make one section and i have a half – i’llhave half of it and then an hour and a half later, i’ll have the other half. i justsplit it up, so it’s not any more difficult to make. it’s not a time consuming thing;you’re just consuming less food over a longer period of time.dr. pompa:the athletes find that they have to do that because if they’re eating ina five-hour window or whatever window you’re eating in, six or whatever it is, to get inwhat they need, they have to cut it even in that time. you can only eat so much at onemeal. dr. mercola:i wouldn’t necessarily agreewith that, because when you have an 85% fat,

you can eat a lot of calories real quickly.dr. pompa:i get full. that’s me. i try to eat and i wish i could eat more. that’sinteresting, but i recently read a study – i’ll have to find it, because my concern was, whenwe look at some of these tribes, they tend to eat a lot at one time, so what about that?we used to always say, “hey, you can only consume at least 25 grams.â€â  rosedale hassaid it for year. per meal, don’t exceed maybe 15 grams of protein at a time.dr. mercola:i think 15 is a lot more reasonable than 25. twenty-five is really a significantlevel of protein. i did not know this, and i have kidney challenges due to mercury extractionsi had, or amalgam extractions. i have to be careful, but doing this, i’ve had the bestkidney function tests i’ve had in 20 years.

it’s basically a normal test at this point,which is phenomenal. i never thought i would see this.dr. pompa:it’s the fillings – that’s what got me. in the study it was interesting.they said because of the growth hormone rise, you are able to more safely take in more proteinin one meal, and that’s what they were finding. that’s an interesting thing. once again,though, the intermittent fast actually protects you because you get the higher growth hormone,and now you’re able to actually take in more protein in one meal. it’s interesting,but i think that no matter what, if you do the fast, whatever it is, you’re able togo – if you’re going 18 hoursâ  on a fast – eating the rest of that time, i thinkthat’s very easy for people. i tell people,

go ahead. eat as much as you want during thattime. that’s typically what they do. dr. mercola:the caution and revision of thatwould be to eat as much as you want. i was losing weight. i wasn’t that heavy. i startedthis whole process somewhere between 180 and 185, and i’ve promptly dropped 20 pounds.my waist size went from 34-35 to under 32, which is crazy.dr. pompa:i am there myself. dr. mercola:it was too much weight loss forme, so to maintain it, i had to actually get back to 170 or 180, which is where i’d liketo be. i’m up to 4,500 calories a day now. that’s a lot of calories, but it’s easyto get down. dr. pompa:i don’t take in that much. thedays i exercise, i do long bike rides. i definitely

eat a lot more, so on those days i may onlygo – dr. mercola:yeah, but how do you know? weshould talk about that. it’s chronometer.com, the single best nutrient tracker on the web.it’s free. to me, it’s almost impossible to do this type of program without some typeof nutrient tracker to figure it out. i know to the tenth of a gram how much protein andnet carbs i have every day. today i’m a little bit high. i’m at 49.8,because of those mulberry experiments; 48.8 net grams of carbs, and 70 grams of protein,which is a little high. i like to keep it under 60. the beautiful thing about that isthat you enter the stuff before you eat it, so it gives you a little flexibility. if yousay, “oh, i’m a little bit high on protein

at 80,” you can knock something out andyou can take it back, more or less. dr. pompa:it is – chronometer is great.my clients love using it and it’s so easy to use. you can see the graphs and everything.it’s wonderful. dr. mercola:we’re working with aaron, whois the guy who founded the site. he’s been developing a sub-program for us that’s evenmore specific for this type of thing. dr. pompa:i was just going to say that theonly warning is that some of my clients – it’s almost for people who are trying to lowertheir calorie intake. dr. mercola:he’s actually offered a revisionto the whole program now. you have to go into the sub-menus. i’m going to put that onmy list of things to do today. i’m going

to make some videos today on how to use chronometer.you can actually go in there and customize it for ketogenic, so you can get 1 gram percarb of kilogram or 0.8 if you have cancer or 0.6. you can actually get net carbs andgive yourself a bonus if you’re exercising, so there’s a lot of flexibility now. he’sreally improved it in the last three months. dr. pompa:one more thing on the ketones – whatare you ketones running? i know you use the breath.dr. mercola:i don’t measure them that frequently, and here’s the position that ron has, ronrosedale. he doesn’t think that the elevation of ketones is that efficient, because ideally– think about this – if you up-regulate your fat-burning systems, then ideally ina perfect world, you would burn those ketones

as soon as you manufacture them, meaning thatyour ketone level in your blood would not have that high to rise. if it’s rising high,that means you have a relatively inefficient system to burn those ketones.as you get more proficient at up-regulating these fat-burning systems, your ketone levelsare not going to be that high. they are going to be lower actually, and that’s actuallya good thing. that means you are really burning fat.the only way to answer that is to go into the lab and do some real sophisticated metabolicexperiments to find out what your eq, which is the rate at which you are burning calories.i think perfect fat burning is 70.7 and burning carbs is 1.0. that’s subtle details. i thinkthat’s the answer. my highest ketones, i

think, were maybe in the 2s. i’ve nevergotten in the 3s or 4s. i don’t take exogenous ketones. i don’t think that’s necessarilybad. i think as long as you – you could radically lower – i haven’t played withlowering my net carbs to under 20 grams – usually it’s about the lowest i go is 30, so maybeit will go higher if i go to 10 grams. i don’t know.dr. pompa:it won’t, because i’ve done it. it really doesn’t, so when i first startedthis years ago putting myself into ketosis and ketotic states, my numbers were reallyhigh. i even saw numbers in the fives. dr. mercola:then, they dropped.dr. pompa:yes, and then now – dr. mercola:that’s exactly what i told you.dr. pompa:like you?

dr. mercola:that’s what i said. you didn’ttell me that before. that’s the first time i heard it.dr. pompa:when i’m in ketosis, i’m always over point unless i have more.dr. mercola:i never drop out of 0.5. dr. pompa:i’m typically around 1, honestly.dr. mercola:between 0.5 and 1.0 is typically where it fluctuates, but it’s unusual togo above that. i’m sure you’ve seen this too. post-exercise it will tend to rise quitedramatically. that’s when you’ll see the highest levels – post exercise.dr. pompa:absolutely, of course, especially when you’re in a ketotic state or you’refasting. i see it and i will see it rise as i intermittent fast towards the afternoon.i watch my glucose go down. my glucose will

drop to oftentimes in the 50’s and low 60’sand my ketones are up, especially if i don’t eat for 20 or 24 hours.dr. mercola:that’s a long time. i want to see what happens to your glucose when you’refasting for 24 hours. dr. pompa:my glucose, i’m not as accurateas with the dexcom, but i’m sticking, and my glucose will continue to drop, but likeyou, there are times when i see my glucose starting to rise, but i can typically associatethat because on those days i know it. i just kind of feel it, but it’s right. as soonas i feel that going on, i typically will eat sooner. there are some days i go sooner,and some days i go later. dr. mercola:yeah, i really think this dexcomis the bomb for those of us who are obsessive/compulsive

body hackers is to figure it out, becauseyou really want the lowest glucose level possible. dr. pompa:yeah, absolutely.dr. mercola:you really do; ideally you do not want to ever see 100 or higher glucosereading. ideally, it’s under 80 or 85. dr. pompa:i think one of the things we oweto seyfried too is that he showed that it’s not just about the ketones. your ketones andyour brain and cells won’t even use the ketones if your glucose isn’t well. theidea is that as long as we keep the glucose doing down – if the glucose is up, yourketones could be up, but then you’re wasting them. they’re going out your urine and you’renot utilizing them. i presented that at the seminar i was doing.dr. mercola:let’s not make the mistake that

traditional medicine uses and use glucoseas the only monitor. we’re only using it because we don’t have an easy way to measureinsulin. that’s what they don’t understand. they want to lower the type two diabetic’sglucose level, and they give them all this crap, including insulin, when they’re justtreating the symptoms. when the glucose goes down without these exogenousagents, it means that your insulin level is good and your igf levels are good. that’swhat you really want to get low – the signals. glucose is a marker for that, that’s all.it’s a good one, but it’s not as good as measuring the signals themselves, likeinsulin or igf-1. dr. pompa:yeah, there’s no doubt about it.absolutely – that’s all we have. like

you said, it’s all we have. we can lookat that and guess and typically understand a little bit of what insulin is doing. thisstuff works. i think that we agree that – dr. mercola:it will change your life. whenthe culture adopts this, it will change the entire face of medicine. there’s no doubtin my mind. dr. pompa:you can’t burn fat at the cellularlevel. they can’t burn fat, and that’s the problem.dr. mercola:wait, let me refine that. i think that’s an incorrect statement. they canburn fat; they just can’t burn it as their primary fuel. almost everyone can burn fat,but they don’t burn much. they might burn 99% less than they can, but you want to primarilyburn fat. you want to burn that as 90% of

your fuel or 95% of your fuel as fat.dr. pompa:fat burn cleans; glucose burns dirty because they are using glucose as their primaryenergy source, they’re driving inflammation in the mitochondria, which is leading to themnot being able to think; they have brain fog; they have lack of energy; they don’t feelwell, and god forbid, if they do skip a meal, they feel like crap and they are irritable.i would say if you want to know how healthy you are, skip a meal and see what how youfeel, because ultimately it’s telling what your mitochondria is able to do or not ableto do actually. this is great. listen, we are going to haveto have you on again, because we – dr. mercola:after you get your dexcom so wecan compare notes, man.

dr. pompa:you haven’t had enough time yet.we want this information. i’ve got to have it. this is really revealing. real fast though,what are some of the things you’ve seen that has surprised you with it? you’re lookingat your glucose all day. the berries were one of them, and the exercise was.dr. mercola:i initially got the dexcom to confirm my theory of the optimal time forpeak fasting, and i believe it’s true. i can measure my blood sugar every five minutesand i can see when i rises, so i know exactly when to eat. i ultimately have to figure itout, because i don’t want to wear this monitor or sensor the rest of my life. it is prettybeautiful. the biggest epiphany i’ve had, which i just shared with you and have learnedin the past two days, was eating fruit during

exercise. i don’t think anyone has objectivelydocumented that observation to the best of my knowledge. it’s not been documented.i think i discovered it. dr. pompa:after didn’t work; it was onlythat during. dr. mercola:how many people are checking theirblood sugar that frequently to find that out? it’s very inconvenient to do a finger prickthat many times. dr. pompa:try it something other than fruit.try it with other forms of exercise too. i’m just curious. i just want to kind of get something– dr. mercola:i don’t know if i did discusswith you, but i picked up an ewot machine, exercise with oxygen therapy. it’s interesting.you work out for 20 minutes at 80% of maximum

heart rate, in my case it’s 118, which isbasically reflected as your age, which is a real easy pace for someone who has beenan athlete, and you’re breathing 100% oxygen or 99% or 98% because you have these oxygencontours; you’re breathing in a mask from a bag.i do it on an elliptical, but you can do any activity as long as you’re heart rate getsto that level, and then for 4 minutes – you do that for 20 minutes, and then for 4 minutesyou do high-altitude training where you virtually have very low concentrations. you de-saturateyour blood and then for another 4 minutes you go to 100% oxygen. it can get levels ofoxygen into your blood that is 10 to 20 times higher than the levels that you would seein a hyperbaric chamber exposure. i’ve just

started that. i’m really intrigued withthat. i think it’s going to be really useful. i’m very excited.â  it’s a very good formof oxidative therapy. it’s improving mitochondrial biogenesis and mitophagy too.dr. pompa:are there any other foods that you ate and saw, “whoa,”dr. mercola:no, like i was saying, 85% of my food is fat, so i don’t see any influenceupon fat when i eat it during, before, or after exercising.dr. pompa:you’re going to have to step outside your diet a little bit while you have thatthing connected to you, because – dr. mercola:no, i’m not stepping outside.i want to be healthy. i love the way my brain works. i love not having an appetite. i lovethe way my body looks on this stuff.

dr. pompa:it’s for information. i want tosee it on other food. dr. mercola:i will experiment with higherdoses of fruit. i might go into 90, 100, or 200 grams of not net carbs, but fruit, totalfruit such as mangoes. i literally have 6 mango trees, because i live in florida, andi’ve got 100’s of mangoes that will be in full bloom in about 6 weeks. i’ll havea mango experiment. dr. pompa:i would entice you to eat some grain.dr. mercola:i don’t eat grain. no. you can’t force me into poisons and toxins. i am notgoing to do it. dr. pompa:i’m not going to force you. i’mteasing. dr. mercola:no way am i doing that!â  i feeltoo good without it. it’s crazy.

dr. pompa:i want him to eat some gmo glyphosateladen corn. dr. mercola:it’s not going to happen. myfirst book that i ever wrote, which is also a new york times best seller, was the no graindiet. i did not like the title, and for 10 years i hated the title, because i didn’tthink it was right. now, i’m so glad because now i think it’s right. i don’t anyoneshould be eating grains, from the perspective of metabolic biological optimization of yourmitochondria. i’ve got enough of the science studied now that i think i could argue effectivelywith anyone who refutes that. there is no way they can deny what we findinghappening in the mitochondria. it’s all about having a clean fuel, because if you’reeating dirty fuel, glucose derived from any

of the grains, you’re clearly going to gethigher concentrations and you are going to be creating more reactive toxicities causingmore damage. there is no question about it. dan, i know we’re getting close to time,but i forgot to mention one thing that everyone needs to know. this is going to be a chapterin my new book that i’m going to start promoting massively. everyone watching this needs toknow their iron level. do you teach them about that, the serum ferritin?dr. pompa:i teach my doctors that, but fire away.dr. mercola:there’s no question. why? let’s go into the molecular biology of it. whenyou have high free iron in the mitochondrial inner membrane, you are going to catalyzethe reaction of hydrogen peroxide to hydroxyl

free radicals, which in hydroxyl free radicalswill damage in a nanosecond mitochondrial dna and mitochondrial membranes. that is theworst, most highly reactive biological reactive oxygen species.dr. pompa:how about this joe? this will interest you. the site of detox that you have and thati have are hemochromatosis patients. it’s lowering.dr. mercola:i will be checking it, because i check my ferritin every month, so will objectto the document there for you. it’s mitigated against the need of still doing regular donations.i know a lot of people can’t, but then you do a therapeutic phlebotomy. i think men needto donate at least two pints a year, collectively throughout the year or maybe two or threeif you want to stay healthy. i’m going to

refine that recommendation based on the sideof detox. i don’t know. i’d love it. i’m currently in the evaluation process of it.i’ve only been using it for a month or so; somewhere in that range. i don’t know. idon’t notice anything with it, but i sure the heck hope. we all need what it does, atleast in theory. i’m going to confirm objectively with labs and other chemistries that’s doingthat personally. dr. pompa:yeah, that’s great. that’s whatwe want too. it will be interesting to see, because what we’ve found with the hemochromatosispatients was a shock actually. we had no idea, but you’re right. those levels get higherwith oxidation. dr. mercola:i have a minor type of hemochromatosis,which is beta thalassemia, which has a high

red cell turnover that produces a similarsyndrome as hemochromatosis, so it’s a big issue. it almost killed my dad. i inheritedthe thalassemia from my dad. it’s a big issue for me. it’s really big, so i wasjust delighted to know that theâ cytodetoxâ„¢â is going to facilitate that. i still think it’sgoing to help if you actually physically remove the iron with the blood, because you can getquite a few milligrams of iron out by doing that.dr. pompa:that’s great. it’s good information. it affects the mitochondria oxidation levels.dr. mercola:how do you tell? the simple blood test is called serum ferritin and it shouldbe the same level as your vitamin d, which is about 40 to 60 nanograms/milliliters; itmay be a little higher for me and a little

lower for women – 40 to 60 – somewherein there. dr. pompa:yeah, 40 to 60, about the same asyour vitamin d. dr. mercola:it’s easy to remember. it’sthe same units too. most men have a ferritin of about 130 or 140. that’s literally twiceas much as they should have. they really need to get aggressive. if i had a ferritin of140, i would be donating 3 units of blood a year until i got it down to 60.dr. pompa:i’m going to pull some of my old blood, because when i was taking cytodetox™– dr. mercola:could you send me that data? iwould love to see it. i would love to see it. send me the pre and post ferritin levels.dr. pompa:the data from the hemochromatosis

coming in from my doctors, because –dr. mercola:you have hemochromatosis? dr. pompa:no, i don’t. i was saying, i’mgoing to have to look at my old blood and where my ferritin levels were, because mylast one was in the normal range. dr. mercola:wait, first of all, the normalranges in the lab are wrong. they are absolutely wrong. it’s just like the old cholesterol.when i graduated med school in ’85, the normal range for cholesterol was anythingunder 300. now you know what they are. i don’t necessarily disagree with them, but that justshows you how they change. the normal range for the ideal health range is 40 to 60 nanograms.they say anything below 200 is normal. that is such a bunch of horse crap, because theydo not understand that pathology that occurs

with elevated ferritin levels. they have noconcept of it. dr. pompa:we use different ranges. we usethe optimal mind that we spoke of, but i’m wondering if it affected it. i want to seewhere it was before i started this. i’ll let you know. i’m going to check it as soonas we get off the line here. dr. mercola:yeah, send me the results. i’dlove to see them. dr. pompa:i want to know. it’s great stuffdr. joe. we appreciate you. we appreciate what you do for natural health honestly, becausewe know that there is people – the bigger you get in natural health, the more that wehave to watch our back. dr. mercola:when you get aggressive and youtake strong, active actions like i do in fighting

major issues like fluoride and gmo labelingand then calling out the drug companies when they’re killing people. i was the firstinvestigative journalist to warn people publicly about vioxx; literally a year before it reachedthe market and killed 60,000 people. i warned people about it. that was a $25 billion lawsuitfrom merck, so they don’t like that i get on their tail. that’s just one example.there are literally dozens and dozens of others. i’ve cut out billions of dollars from theirrevenues and they are targeting me for sure. dr. pompa:listen, i know that. we appreciateyou. we appreciate the information you bring. you have changed healthcare. you have, joe.dr. mercola:i’m telling you, it’s only a fraction of what’s going to happen inthe future. i’ve never been more excited

about mitochondrial therapy than anythingelse in my previous practice. dr. pompa:the public is aware. people bringyou on and ask for you to talk about something like that. they want you to talk about someof the other things, right? this is something that we are very passionate on this show about.i’ve talked about the mitochondria and cell energy, and this is topic that we talk a lotabout, so my viewers and listeners absolutely can handle this higher-end conversation, andthe whole thing with the intermittent fasting and when to eat. this is great stuff, joe,and like you said, i love it. keep fasting, and i can’t wait to learn more. i thinkwe’re going to learn more. dr. mercola:it’s amazing, because of myposition in the health world, i’m able to

connect with a lot of the experts very easilyand communicate with them and dialogue and learn from all their years in the lab andclinical research, so it’s really exciting to bring it all together. guys like ben greenfield;i really have enormous respect for what he’s doing. it’s good.dr. pompa:we’ll be together in dallas. we’ll have a mind think there as well.dr. mercola:remind me about dallas. dr. pompa:that’s a september conferenceyou and i are at. dr. mercola:no, that’s orlando.dr. pompa:yeah, it is orlando. dr. mercola:i’m going to be in dallas inoctober, but i didn’t think we were going to be in that one. that’s the truth aboutcancer conference.

dr. pompa:it is orlando. i’m excited. wewill get together on another one and we’re going to keep – meredith make you stay ondr. joe and get him on – in another few months, we’re using the dexcom and i thinkwe’re going to get some more energy. there it is. maybe by then i’ll have it. you’regoing to have to help me though. dr. mercola:i sure hope so. i would be verydisappointed. i’ve heard some nasty, dirty rumors about dan pompa being such a wimp thathe can’t put the darn sensor into this belly. dr. pompa:i can’t even think about it.dr. mercola:it’s so easy. i’ll tell you the amount of pain is very similar to whatyou do for your finger pricks. there’s not much difference.dr. pompa:it’s not that. it’s just having

it in there all the time.dr. mercola:oh, jeez, you never even know it’s there. it’s a nonissue.dr. pompa:i love this, meredith. he’s the only one who has the guts to come on the showand rise me like that! dr. mercola:meredith, don’t the other guestsdo this? meredith:you kind of stepped it up and challengedhim a lot, and i like it. dr. mercola:someone has got to do it.meredith:exactly. dr. pompa:i have a lot of respect for youjoe. i’ll take it from you. we’ll talk again joe. thank you and we’ll have someoffline conversations about this. you’re not off the hook!â  thanks for being withus.